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.38 Super in a Colt 10 mm?

No I'm NOT nuts. Of course I don't actually mean in a 10mm BARREL, but here's the facts, just the facts.

I was reading an article about the .38 Super rimless being an improvement in reliability over the super semi-rimmed. So With vernier in hand started to get an idea... If a rimless case will work on the breech face of the .38 super slide, (the 9mm and .38 super are the same slide) which is around .015" difference, then WHY wouldn't a .38 super work just as well in a .38 super barrel fitted for the 10mm slide?

Well the .38 super rim measures .401", and the .10mm measures .418"... that's pretty close to the delta between the Colt 9mm/.super breech face. So I set out to try it.

First I needed a barrel, a cheap one, because I didn't want to blow lots of money if I was wrong (even though I doubted it) and needed to scrap the idea. So I found a REALLY old 5" super barrel, and fit it up in my Delta Elite, with an appropriate recoil spring. Next I dragged out an old super mag, and looked over it carefully. Since the .38 Super doesn't need a spacer in the rear of the mag like the 9mm or .40 in a Colt 1911 frame, I figured at least it would feed well if it worked at all.

Well after throwing several hundred rounds down range, I can say it works like a dream. My Gold Cup Delta Elite is now a three caliber gun... 10mm, .40 S&W, and .38 Super.

The 10mm Delta is ALSO suitable to an easy conversion to .357 SIG (using Colt .40 mags) and 9x25 using 10mm magazines. If your budget only has room for ONE firearm, you can expand the Delta Elite inexpensively with these caliber conversions.

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Omega bugs

The OMEGA has/had LOTS of bugs I detailed them in a list below with cures and actions.


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Colt 1911

The 1911 has few quirks, but some advice to new owners would be a good idea.


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Glock quirks

The 10mm's with full powered loads REALLY are challenging to shoot. My Model 20 really needs a handall wrap, or gloves to keep my hand from numbing up. Several HONEST Glock Armorers here in Florida all took a dim view of magic guide rods to lessen muzzle rise, therefore I wanted to pass that on to all of you.

Generally I don't believe in messing with a gun, and the Glock is no exception. I guess you could spend more on it if you HAD to tinker a tad, but my reputable sources say save the money.

This is unequivocally the ONLY firearm I DID NOT TO DO ANYTHING WITH, to make it work, OR fit me. Something I'd LOVE to say about every other firearm I ever owned. Also my G-20 has the tightest chamber of any 10mm I ever owned, and I use it as a "max cartridge gauge" for match ammo. This is VERY good... except on the down side it is a bit fussy about gunpowders, dirty powder will force jams, and reloads have to be seated and crimped in separate operations to make sure the bullet fits the chamber.

Another point I'd like to make about the G-20 is that I do NOT consider the gun a particularly STRONG gun. Call me old fashioned, but I LIKE LOTS of steel in my barrel chamber walls. I'm sure the gun is capable of digesting ANY factory ammo, and then some, because these barrels must have been proof fired at the factory with loads higher than the 36,000 odd PSI loads for SAAMI MAX pressures, but as I said, I FEEL much better handloading to a barrel that has more metal.
Here's some chamber dimensions I measured on my various 10's and others for comparison.

Colt Delta Elite .135"
S&W 1076 .135"
Glock 20 .105"
EAA Witness .091" (Scary stuff there) 

Colt .45 .106"
And some .38-357's S&W 38 J-Frame .048" S&W .357 66 K frame .070" S&W .357 mod 627 N frame .115"
I consider the 627 an incredibly STRONG firearm, due mainly to the GENEROUS amount of metal in cylinder wall thickness.

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The 610

This gun has no quirks I know of, but there are some things to know.

Chamferring the cylinders will allow full moon clips full of SWC's to more easily drop in for match shooting. The chamfer can be quite deep, but keep it to less than .070" from the rear cylinder face to assure that you do not allow the WEB area of the case to become unsupported. Even a simple rounding off of the cylinder corners with a few dremel stone bits, and some polishing will help, so your gusmith need NOT get involved.

All the 610's I know of really will work FAR better with TMJ's or Truncated cone bullets with a taper crimp.

Full moon clips are hard to find, but worth it, as they will let you use .40 S&W's at your next pin match.

My 610 was greatly improved in the trigger by cleaning up and polishing the rebound slide, and the frame underneath it. All SS parts that rub on the frame should also be cleaned up and polished a tad as the parts in most of my N frame 1980 series were improved quite a bit with minimal time involved. I never replace springs on my S&W's preferring to clean up the metal, and let the rest break in.

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The Javelina

This gun has some bugs that are typical 1911, and a couple that are not. Jamming was only cleared up after systematically trying everything in this text. Any ONE left out just about started a small percentage of jams.

Problems with ejecting correctly are helped with a new ejector. problem is they are spot welded onto the frame. Yup, you read it correctly, WELDED! This is truly idiotic since the drift pin that normally holds in the ejector has the hole drilled in the frame. You need to grind off the weld to put another ejector on. This cures lots of bugs.

Mine had other various feed problems till I put a F/L length guide rod in the gun and it ran smoother. Some folks claim this is a stupid add on. I say if it were true wouldn't SIG, Glock, S&W, Star, and just about EVERY auto manufacturer in the world save themselves the money and copy the 1911/Hi-power design?

At any rate, this gun NEEDS oil, and LOTS of it. Running mine WET (rails, bbl, guide rod, slide underside) with oil cleared up many of my jam problems. I use FP-10 oil exclusively on ALL SS firearms, as I have never had a GALLING problem using it. Also I use Eezox on all external surfaces to prevent any rust. Eezox is the most unbelievable rust inhibitor I ever used. I have a 100 year old Rail Road spike in my garage that was bead blasted to white metal. After 9+ years in my garage with only 2 applications on the spike, it's STILL in the white. This is quite amazing since I live on a salt water canal.

Colt mags helped lots, as did polishing the hammer face, and cleaning up the metal on the slide underside where the disconnector recess is.

If you have a Javelina (or Hardballer) try this stuff, I'll bet your gun works MUCH better!


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10mm in a .45 1911

The Delta 10mm's were designed DELIBERATELY to NOT fit ANY other Colt barrel. The ID of the slide is smaller on a Delta Elite, and NO other standard Colt barrel will fit a Delta. On the reverse side of the coin, A Delta barrel MAY fit a standard 1911, but the locking lugs will probably be a very loose fit, enough so to make the barrel tear off the lugs. Also, the Breech face of the .45 will be too large.

If you WANT to convert a Delta, the .38 Super, .40 S&W, .357 SIG, and the 9x25 are all you can realistically do.


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Springs N Things

Now that I have covered the 10mm, and the guns for the most part, I want to talk about SPRINGS! You know those little replaced always overlooked items. Most people don't know it, but recoil springs should be replaced every 1000-2000 rounds because they lose some tension. A proper spring will not only forgive some laxness in replacing, but the gun WILL feed better in a slightly dirty chamber, and the gun will last longer.

My Gold Cup Delta Elite has a 24 Lb Wilson spring for real 10mm ammo, and a 16 pound spring for the .40, and .38 Super barrel. A 24 pound spring is really needed to keep the gun from beating itself (and you) to death. All my 10's work better with heavier springs and a full length guide rod, and I use shock buffers on my 1911's.

Why a guide rod? My Gold cup dust cover was SO poorly machined from the factory that there were heavy spiral machine marks in the inside... right where the spring collapsed, and rubbed. This drag caused VERY noticeable crunchy spots in the slides action. I cleaned up the marks with a dremel tool but left rod in anyway.

There are various spring makers/sellers like Woolf, and Wilson, and they publish complete data, but I put here some of the recoil springs recommended by them for the various 10mm firearms.


 Maker   Firearm     (heavy loads) (target loads) Factory
Wilson  Colt 1911       24   lb        15 lb.       23
Wilson  Double Eagle    18.5 lb        10 lb.       23
Wilson  Glock 20        19   lb        15 lb.       17 
Wilson  S&W 1006        20   lb        15 lb.       18

Woolf   Colt 1911      24-26 lb                     23
Woolf   Glock 20       20-24 lb         **          17
Woolf   1066,1076,1086  22   lb         **          17
Woolf   1006,1026      20-24 lb         **          18

** The Author generally uses FACTORY springs for TARGET loads

Ed Note: The following is some advice I gave someone in
a 10 talk note, and I thought it would be a good idea to copy here.

WHATEVER spring you use, use FULL LENGTH springs, do NOT cut them
to make them work, but buy lower powered springs instead. Changing the
LENGTH of a spring changes "powered flight" time where a spring needs
to be in a decompression state roughly 80% of the time (in its linear
region I'm told) to be effective. 

If you cut a 22 pound spring to say a 18 pound "feel" the compressed
effect will be the same, but as it begins its' "powered flight" is
rapidly becomes "free flight" where inertia is left to close the slide.
On a slightly dirty chamber, or dirty rails, with a slightly oversize
bullet nose due to wax buildup, you have all the elements of a jam. The
slide should ALWAYS be under forward tension due to some decompression
force by the recoil spring AND mainspring. This is a big source of
jams, problem the folks who cut springs, don't see the forces at work
as they should.

There are some who call extra powered recoil, and mainsprings a bunch
of hooey in 10's,  and it may be so but the FACTS I have discovered are:


1. 45 springs and 10mm springs, and 9mm springs do NOT have the same part
     numbers from Colt, or anyone else... there's a reason.

2. MY 10mm frames do not show any cracks, peening, or any unusual wear.

3. Everyone I know of who neglected springs, has problems in #2 above.

HMMmmmmnnnn.... looks like a pattern!

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Smith and Wesson Concerns

Smith and Wesson firearms are VERY reliable guns, but there ARE some problems to look for in aging guns. Some bugs I found after years of hard use, some after long storage times. FWIW, you may NEVER see then, but if you carry ANY Smith, it's a good idea to spend a few bucks to maintain them as I outline below.

Feed Jams

This bug manifests itself AFTER the first round, but generally somewhere in the middle of the mag, and MOST OFTEN on the last or next to last round.

The Cause

The cause is a weak magazine spring. No doubt in my mind.

Think about it... the last round fired, and the mag spring is too pokey to lift the round up in time for the breech face to catch the rim, and the bottom corner of the slide catches the case mid-body, and stops the gun.

In a pinch, say at a match, simply pull the spring out of the mag, and S-T-R-E-T-C-H the spring out to roughly 1/2 longer than it was. The LONG term solution is to replace the mag spring... order spares while you're at it, because they only last 4 or 5 years.

Failure to Extract

This is caused by higher pressure rounds, in older guns. If you experience a jam that fails to extract the empty case, try this:

Drop the full mag, let the slide go forward on the empty case, and extract it by hand. If it comes out readily, it's probably NOT a worn extractor.

The Cause

In an aging gun with weak extractor springs, higher pressure rounds can and do cause this problem. Longer barreled guns like the 1006 will be worse than shorter barrels than a 1076... This is fact... After probably hundreds of thousands of rounds through S&W's of the same caliber(s) like .40's, .45's and 10's with shorter and longer barrels I have documented this phenomena dozens and dozens of times.

My "Suspicion" is: the pressure curve in the shorter barreled guns is faster by enough in some loads to be released just a bit faster than the long barreled guns. The curve stays higher for longer in longer barrels, and a failure to extract occurs.

The Cure

You can buy "Color Coded" extraction springs from S&W's Performance Center.

The codes are as follows:

WHITE STANDARD POWER
BLUE INCREASED POWER
RED INCREASED POWER over BLUE

These springs are in use in all of my S&W .40's with great success.

Oh, one last thing I think you will like, it's not a BUG, but I always HATED S&W mag releases. So I have used the S&W 745 oversize release button on every S&W I own. One nit about them though... since they ARE much easier to release, that also means that a poorly fitted holster can and WILL release it on your CARRY gun, not a good situation.

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